tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg July 2, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm EDT
they had been kidnapped and murdered on their way home from the religious school. they had been missing since june 12. prime minister netanyahu spoke sende funeral and lynn, bowed to find those responsible. israeli jets and helicopters struck 34 locations in the gaza strip. u.s. isssador to the here. i am pleased to have him here in this program for the first time. welcome. for having me on the show. >> tell me what israel has discovered about the tragic death of these teenagers. >> we know for fact that this crime was perpetrated by members of hamas from the have run -- hebron area. pictures have been presented to the israeli public and we will find them. trying three teenagers
to get home and they were kidnapped and essentially executed by these hamas members. israel has taken action to dismantle the structure of thomas in the west bank and we have taken action in gaza because we had rockets fired at our cities over the last couple of days around -- around two dozen. we took anti-terror action in gaza. we have met to find out what is the right response and to bring the perpetrators to justice and dismantled the terror structure and conduct these activities against the racketeers in gaza who are firing at our cities and do what is necessary to protect israel's civilian population. >> what were the motivations for those who kidnapped the teenagers? >> what is the motivations of all these terror groups?
my --oups are spreading like mushrooms. you have a sure -- you have the shia brady and has blah is an example. --has blah is an example. al qaeda.amas, isis, an insaneedded to idea of the world and are trying toresume -- reverse history establish a caliphate. these terror organizations have to be opposed and they have to be confronted and that is what israel is doing in gaza and the west bank. click save it was a political act why have they not taken credit for it? >> it might be the organization of hamas, the their headquarters in gaza does not want to take credit for this act is they didn't want -- do not want the rep tradition -- retribution. hamas, says a terror
organization. they have fired thousands of rockets at our cities. they have dispatched scores of suicide bombers. members of hamas perpetrated this crime. they are a generous -- a genocidal terror organization. killing calling for the of jews worldwide. they not only did not condemn of kidnapping as resident boston, they praise the kidnapping and called for more. we know what hamas is all about. it has not changed and hamas has to be confronted. >> what kinds of options does israel have it might use going forward? >> i would leave it to the decision-makers with all due respect to the ambassador. we have security -- had security cabinet meetings.
israel has a serious leader and he will take the action that he thinks are necessary to bring the perpetrators of this crime to justice and to do what is necessary to defend the israeli population. israel hadhalf ago to engage in wider action in gaza. we did that because we were getting salvos of rockets, hundreds of rockets fired at our cities every couple of weeks and the prime minister had to draw line in the sand and say this is unacceptable. he took action and did not solve the problem but 2013 was one of the quietest periods. these types of actions are excitable. the prime minister and his security cabinet are ensuring that these actions are unacceptable. the world has to send a message leave -- that terrorism is unacceptable. we appreciate that president
abbas, the leader of the house - ny and, has condemned the kidnappings. he is condemning the action and then joining up with terrorists the next day. abbas toto president dismantle the pact he has made with the hamas organization and to turn their back on, san terror and go back to peace negotiations. >> for histories sake -- history's sake what has the they have said -- come together, they have made it clear that they found that an unacceptable urbanization to deal with. -- organization to deal with. >> when they announced his alliance would take place the security council of israel met and made it clear that israel would not conduct political negotiations. we will not negotiate with those who are committed to art destruction.
that decision was made six weeks ago. since he may join -- president abbas joined up with hamas you have seen hamas sprout up in the that is part of the problem we have seen. in the last two and half weeks -- two and half weeks, president abbas has taken action to dismantle the terror network that has started to read. he has to take a stand against thomas. >> i realize that is one thing. condemned the killing and did he help in the search to find the teenagers? >> yes, he condemned the kidnapping at the time. and he condemned it in arabic and in saudi arabia. that is important he condemned it. palestinian security forces worked with israel and they work
corporative with israel in trying to find those who are responsible and we appreciate that as well but he is sending mixed messages. he is condemning the kidnapping one day and he is in the government with the kidnappers the next. that is the problem. withpe you will stand israel and turn his back on hamas and terror. the palestinians built, forged this unity pact between hamas and fatah. had they recognized israel's right to resist -- exist -- if thomas took the steps you would be in favor of thomas and you would be in favor of one hearty representing the palestinians. >> we do not have any problem -- unitystinian union that is for peace. we have a problem with an organization that has not changed one iota. hamas controls gaza.
they are firing these rockets and president abbas made a pact with this organization. >> will you try to assassinate the hamas leadership? >> those decisions will be made by the security cabinet in israel. i can only tell you, you know the prime minister, you have interviewed him many times. he is a very serious, very responsible leader. he will take the actions he needs to take to defend israel's population. the government has a responsibility to protect israel's civilians and protect them from rocket attacks, protect them from these heinous terrorist attacks and i have no doubt the prime minister will do what he has to to fill phil -- fulfill this responsibility he has. >> what can you do to change the behavior of hamas? that resident abbas knows it is unacceptable internationally to forge an alliance with an organization like hamas, that will be the
beginning of the change. it may take some time for hamas to change. the problem is they're getting the wrong message. they basically forged an alliance with president abbas and more or less it has been business as usual for most of the world. not during this action. everyone condemns it and we appreciate the strong statements from the president of the united states, the white house called me to express the prime -- the president's obama -- condemnation of this. everyone who is a father and a parent understands this. other world leaders have been very clear that this action is unacceptable. i think right now they should ratchet it up more -- one notch and tell president abbas and this alliance with -- end this alliance with hamas. to change andnce
unite the population for peace, not terror. he heard from other leaders? >> the arabs are beginning to understand that israel is not their enemy. particularly golf -- the gulf states. we face common threats. developing nuclear capability. they face radical sunni forces in the region. unique, and some ways it is a real opportunity. israel and the air of world for the first time i can remember and many people tell me for the first time in the history of the state that leading powers in the arab world and the state of israel see their interests aligned. the critical question for the israeli leadership and the people who want to contribute to peace is how do we find a way to
use this opportunity to build bridges between israel and the arab world? there is a unique opportunity here and i know my prime minister is serious about doing so. he has spoken about it up locally and it is possible because of these common enemies, because of these common dangers and threats for us to begin to build those bridges. >> you expect that the united states and iran will come to any kind of agreement by july 20 on a nuclear understanding? >> i do not know. obviously, israel is concerned iran is a country that direct the calls for israel's destruction. there the full must sponsor of terrorism around the world. -- they are the foremost sponsor of terrorism around the world. not only nuclear weapons today but the ability and capability to produce nuclear weapons in the future. you look at an example of an agreement that was signed to weaponsyrian chemical and chemical weapons capability.
all those were removed and dismantled, at least the ones the government declared. that is a great achievement. the president of the united states for leading that diplomatic effort. it did not solve the humanitarian problem in syria and did not prevent the fanatics that you see in isis are marching in syria and iraq. did change, it took the chemical weapons and took it out of potentially out of the hands of killers. the same way everything should be done to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of this regime in tehran. not just nuclear weapons but nuclear weapons capability and we hope the model of syria will be the model that you see with iran. you are removing all of the injured rich -- enriched uranium and removing the capabilities build theses to
weapons. s, and looking at radical that you will see one of these forces arm itself with nuclear as ans and if iran is left threshold of nuclear power other countries will rush to develop their own nuclear weapons capability and then you will create the most unstable region on the planet. you will turn it into a nuclear tinderbox and that is not only a threat to my country, it is a threat to the region and the entire world. ax israel is confident he has strong support of the president of the united states in his search to do something with iran as well as support for israel's actions against terrorism. ax i can tell you year-and-a-half ago i was with the prime minister in the war room in israel when we had a confrontation with hamas and they could not ask for it or from president obama he
stood by our side throughout. andhat he said publicly privately. that strong support helped israel de-escalate the conflict area because we had that strong diplomatic backing, because hamas understood we had the strong support of the president and we had iron dome which is this antimissile defense system that we have produced together that is financed in the u.s., it is israeli technology. because of all those elements, israel was able to bring that confrontation to a cease-fire and a cease-fire which held throughout 2013 and is beginning restore deterrence. we are great allies but israel is closer and more vulnerable to this threat in iran. our position is that iran should not the just prevented from having nuclear weapons but prevented from having a nuclear weapons capability. we do not believe the answer is to leave iran, to leave them part is a threshold -- parked at
the threshold of nuclear power. they are months away from having the fissile material necessary and to put inspectors is the only thing that will block iran from breaking out or snaking out to have nuclear weapons in the future. inspectors will not do the job. the only thing is to remove this nuclear weapons capabilities from iran. we hope that president obama and the rest of the p5 plus one leadership will make sure that they stand very strong, very the, sanctions are hitting iranian economy very hard. there is no need to rush into a bad deal. we hope you will send -- stand firm and permit iran from having nuclear weapons capability. >> there is this. at the park avenue synagogue here, i was asked to come and engage in a conversation with one of the surviving early founders of israel, shimon peres who has had many jobs there. you were there sitting on the
first row. you called him both a dreamer and a doer. we will see now this conversation, a man who has served prime ministers and defense minister as well as president. where do you put him? >> he is a unique figure in our history. what i said is he is a rumor and a doer. a dreamer in the sense of imagining a different world and a doer in terms of trying to implement that vision. in public life, the people i have encountered usually fall, the great figures fall in one of those two categories. they either inspire others with their vision of the future, or they work to achieve something specific and pragmatic. rarely does a go together. you have someone who threw his lifetime of service to the state of israel has done both. the prime minister has worked very closely with him and i think he was a perfect president for israel and we wish him a long life and i am sure you will be hearing from resident peres
>> i hope that this conversation can and i am sure it is with the eloquenceatch that has introduced it. it is a deep honor for me to be here in this historic synagogue to look out and to see in the faces of people who have come here out of and appreciation of the contribution you have made to the world, to the state of israel, to humanity. there is a sense as i look at this as a historic moment, an opportunity to see you as president. thate who knows you knows you will be back in new york and the united states because as was said earlier, the question now is where will you be and what will you be doing, with the
great faith that your let's work will continue beyond the presidency? we as members of the human community look forward to that because you have served your humanity for a long time. i am deeply honored to be part of this conversation. it is about history. it is about faith. it is about the state of israel. and it is about its relationship to the world. i was always fascinated by the relationship between you and david ben-gurion. you are there is his friend and the idea that he and part was responsible for your first visit to the united states. i was a good [inaudible]
-- i did not know a single word of english. he called me up and says, i know what you feel. ando the united states. study and look what is happening there. .hen i spent two years the mostwas [indiscernible] i have had. this was my first visit. night. study at at the school for social research and during the day i worked. >> you said you hoped to see peace if you live to be another 10 years, you expect it to come. are you optimistic? >> 100%.
it was a mistake that i was not more optimistic. if i compare our early [indiscernible] and the reality that followed, i must say that [indiscernible] was too small. the reality exceeded the dreams. the state of -- when the state of israel was founded it was one million people -- it was 650,000 at the time. it is better to -- the greater you dream the better the reality may become. [applause] >> what do you see as the biggest obstacle today?
>> skepticism of human beings. us. skeptics among that to be aink little bit pessimistic is to be very much serious. i am not sure about it. i do not believe that optimists and pessimists pass away the same way but it is differently. they suggest otherwise. pessimist?s a trust, the more you create trust. greater potential and --ry person can become
because he is serving. celebrate causes. that is the best advice. palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, someone said. has israel missed opportunities, too? >> i am not sure there is an extended opportunity as i am optimistic. i know there are many hurdles and problems and happen overnight. walk in a rose garden. >> yes. you should not give up because there are some difficulties. i started by suggesting to king hussein --everybody says this was the best agreement.
there was a majority against it. what should we have done afterwards emma to do nothing? againorry we did not meet but the next was arafat. arafat was a very special person. -- he had an excellent memory. he remembered every day. only thing you have to -- are facts.acts without him, we could not start without him. it was better to conclude. >> yes. >> we went halfway. arab -- would remain a
terroristic organization. all of them and each of them. you had these two camps. there was a camp of abbas and and-- who was for peace [indiscernible] who was for courage. it will participate in finding that. he spoke for peace and spoke against terror. arabic in saudi arabia on the most sensitive issues. he was not reelected. but we havemplete
one advantage. -- they have an advantage, a mrs. for the future. they carry arms. they do not carry the future. they will not win. and gaza cannot support them. beginning toare feel a cost of it. >> do those arab nations have made peace with israel and part of the arab league, do they have influence with the maas -- hamas. hamas, some of them. was famous for supporting hamas. in different camps. take the president of egypt. thatmade it very clear
there will not -- they will not a role ins to play egypt. that is a clear pose -- a clear position. the king of jordan the same. two countries that had many difficulties, suffering from poverty. who needs them from their standpoint. and the palestinian camp, we have two sides. so iss against them and his own good reasons. it means to destroy the life of their young people and preventing them from having a future. which is reasonable. to be young today is nice, like always but it is expensive.
young people have to compete very heavily in education and their parents cannot tell them as they did. you have to allow the young to live in a new era. >> apart from one piece which i want to continue to talk about, israel has become this market center for -- remarkable center for technology. >> yes. >> how did that happen and why did that happen? andet me say in a light way a serious way. that is because of the jewish dna. [laughter] [applause] the jewish dna does not permit a jew to be satisfied. satisfied.e not
they are all the time looking to improve things and i do not know a real jewish person who is satisfied. >> i must be jewish. >> yes. [laughter] [applause] side.the serious holy country, actually. many people complained about moses. why did you take us to israel and not saudi arabia? time. funny at the there is the holy countries and the oily countries. withlved agriculture technology.
outnumbered and outmanned. we saw we could adopt that. rich nation that is poor needed a thriving economy. -- maybe we do not a simpletalent to be people but we are very rich. many talented persons. maybe more than at any other place. that i think is the only compensation for the suffering of our forefathers. >> your successor as president does not have the same commitment to a two state solution that you do. >> first of all it is not for snow -- personal.
the president does not have his private policy and i am sure that he will respect the policy which is basically being done by the government. many people have different ideas. there could be 1000 policies. and by the way i was very glad that the president says he wants to meet abbas. initial thought. but he felt that it was needed trust hiseve he will own views. >> i would love for you to speak to the demographic argument at the -- as you have often pointed out. the arab population is growing much faster than economic prosperity. the idea that the two state solution has always been something you believed in. , i amher prime ministers
thinking of or been -- rabin and two states to live side-by-side. if that does not happen, people worry and you have secretary of state carry getting in trouble and having to sort of pull back something he has said using the word apartheid. what are your thoughts about that? >> i think the time for a single state having two nations is over. >> it is over. >> yes. [applause] one is -- once they were separated they became friends. justooking at it it is not an empty desire.
two states,not have we shall have one conflict. should of them will ask, condemn our children to fight all their lives. so from our standpoint we want to be a jewish and democratic state. being jewishable and democratic. moses.st democrat was think about it. equal. all people are the image ofde in the lord. that was the first statement in my judgment of democracy. then nobody is superior or inferior. you have to respect everybody. and he fought for freedom. otherwise he would remain in
egypt. do not think that the jewish , disciplinedmple people. they went to egypt -- they were in egypt and started to -- they left egypt and based her to criticize him. why did we leave egypt? -- he was fighting. how can you separate democracy from judaism? it is nonsense. >> you gave an interview to is israeli radio. you said president abbas said he would support israel as a jewish state which has been an issue of contention.
>> the problem of the jewish state is not a matter of declaration. in order to be a jewish state you have to have a jewish majority. if you have a jewish majority you do not need a declaration. if you have a declaration without a jewish majority, it will just be a declaration. i think there is a formula that may be abbas can agree to. that is my impression. the statement and the agreement would be the following. state a jewish state, israel. one state a palestinian state, palestine. so this will fit both the realities and the declaration. >> it seems on the issue of war and peace that net -- everybody knows what the settlement has to be.
since not really changed the 1967 war. >> it did change for a much. the two state solution was not accepted either the two major parties of israel, the right and the left. the right -- [indiscernible] solution. two state people say -- it is a process. standpoint,our there is a clear majority and .fficial policy of israel support a two state solution.
they wanted to conquer everything. principle, least in there is an agreement that a two state solution is the best. difficult it will be and confiscated. life is difficult -- they asked and he said what was the alternative? you have to think in terms of s.ternative >> of all the prime ministers, who have you been doses two, was zakthat sucker been -- it rabin? >> we are products of two streams of the labor hardy.
i saw his face. i shall never forget it. it was the happiest face i ever saw in him. it is so contradictory. lived together, we had differences, too. it is nature but we are able to overcome it. i do not have the slightest doubt about it. we argued it was for the sake of the country. so i think we're very close. the issue is not how do you feel but what do you do question mark >> on the major issues, have you
felt confident that every american resident supported israel? >> by and large, yes. i met 10 presidents. it is very hard to be elected to be a president and the united states. it is not a simple proposition. once you are elected it is hard to be a president. it is not easy. you need a lot of willpower, a lot of talent. they were republicans and there were democrats. all of them without exception as areas i am concerned exceedingly [indiscernible] kennedy. i met was then a low ranking person,
i was deputy minister of defense. we went through the rear entry. him, he lookedh different than in pictures. in the pictures he has blonde hair but when you meet him he had a great deal of white hair because he was suffering. ben-gurion saw him the first. he was elected november. for the first month he spent [inaudible] by the end of january. talk.ad a
kennedy andlk ben-gurion went to the elevator. we had a chance to talk then. ministerays, mr. prime , i know that you and your people supported me very much and it helped me to be elected. what can i do in return? ben-gurion looked at him and says, you can do one thing. of theeat president united states of america. that is the best we can have. really the united states changed the world. about the united states the world with be a mistake. because america being a
superpower never tried to be an empire. because america became great by giving, not by taking. others, not by using others. and israel is a very special case. it grows in the bones of the united states. ben-gurion was really very friendly with presidents. i can witness. it is in the american tradition and because we were small in size but great in freedom, and because we weren't the only democracy in the middle east, we and also because we are jewish.
with values and traditions. america stood on our side more than any other country because we were the most endangered country. -- they think it is too good to be true. i am showing you. -- telling you. it is too true to be good. [laughter] [applause] could write the first paragraph of your obituary, what would you write? >> i never ought about it. [laughter] no. [indiscernible] [applause] >> what has been the proudest
moment for you? one tonight and tomorrow. not going to change the past. i am not interested in it. i think every person -- >> you can change the future. >> you can and you have to. you can. interest is about tomorrow and tomorrow is in god's hand. it does not permit us to change the past. if you want to do that or, tomorrow. i have to say things are not plain and simple. we are facing the danger of iran. which is not a simple proposition again. i do not know what the hell they
want from us. we are not their enemies. nobody is threatening iran. nobody. they nominated [inaudible] and gave priority to america. became thethey center of supporting every terroristic organization? people, y -- the young they do not agree with the present policy but right now we have to stand and prevent iran from becoming nuclear not because they are inferior people but because they are the only country that threatens another state, to destroy it.
glad the meeting with the president, he spoke very clearly about the subject. that he will not permit iran to or -- a nuclear country with nuclear bombs. >> you feel confident that israel should not have to take it into its hands to prevent iran from doing that because the united states will? >> i think iran is a danger to the whole world. it is not a simple question, you now? -- know? nobody wants another here shema. nobody. hiroshima. nobody. out of it.e not
force inow the leading this camp is the united states of america. it is not that we do not want [indiscernible] toe people are sympathetic iran. iran has their own problems, too. and syria and iraq. even if you have a nuclear device it does not mean that the whole world is going to kneel and submit to your ambitions. they will discover, too. >> does it matter that you are the most popular that you have ever been? >> it is confusing, you know? [laughter] [applause] why am i popular? >> you are leaving office and you are the most popular you
have ever been. polls are like perfume. nice to smell, dangerous to drink. i believe nowadays to be a a natural.o be bring an end to terror? i am not sure. can you bring an end to the social cap? i am not sure. what makes you think you're such a powerful man? servant youa public have to sell the people, not to roll them. people believe [indiscernible] personalrunning out of